Comparing the Role of the Noble Lie in the Iliad and the Republic

In Homer's epic, The Iliad, there are many great characters, both mortal and immortal. However, no characters seem to match the greatness and importance of Achilles, the mightiest of the Greeks and Hector, Trojan prince and mightiest of the Trojans. Although they are the mightiest of their forces, their attitudes and motives for the Greek-Trojan war are completely different.

Before his death the Trojan leader Hector exclaims, “Well let me die⎼but not without struggle, not without glory, no, in some great clash of arms that even men to come will hear of down the years,” (22.359-362). This proclamation reveals an important theme in Homer’s Iliad. Throughout the epic poem, the concept of honor and shame constantly reappears, from being the cause of the plot to personification as Greek and Trojan heroes to the dichotomy of honor and shame within the gods. Homer uses honor and shame as a major theme of the Iliad to show how important these attributes are to the human condition.

This is just one of the many examples of how Achilles is ruled by his emotions, of how him being the son of Zeus and Thetis aids him in his goals and gives him an upper hand. He is favored not only by Athena, but also by Hera, and indirectly by Zeus, who tries to maintain neutrality throughout the course of the Iliad. There are various occasions on which the God’s interfere, each trying to help either the Trojans or the Achaeans. On more than one occasion, Thetis interferes on behalf of her son, trying to gain him some ground by calling in the favors that she

Plato gave support for some lies when he said: "It is the business of the rulers of the city, if it is anybody's, to tell lies, deceiving both its enemies and its own citizens for the benefit of the city; and no one else must touch this privilege."(1)

This was the rational motive why Zeus' acquired Thetis to marry a mortal, named Peleus. On the other hand, it doesn’t signify that Achilles cannot die; he is still fated to die as he is more mortal than an immortal. Furthermore, if you look at one of the god named, Apollo, he is supplementary, without any questions, inclined toward Trojans and is persistently engaged to help them. Apollo assisted Trojans on numerous occasions in war. For instance, he dispatched a pestilence to Achaean soldiers by responding to the priest’s pray, ‘[1:40-60]’. Apollo also aided Hector in book 15 where Zeus dispatched Apollo to help Hector and blow new air into his lungs so he can fight again, ‘[15:300-310]’. Also in Book 16, Apollo heard Glaucus’ pray and healed his wound to get him to fight again against Achaeans, ‘[16:600-640]’. Apollo’s twin sister, Artemis, also helped Trojans in the battle alongside Apollo. She helped Trojans just because Apollo is engaged against Achaeans. On the other hand, Athena and Hera are inclined towards Achaeans and assist them in the battle in every accomplishable manner. These deities, Hera and Athena, want the Achaeans to triumph the war and pulverize the Troy. Moreover, Thetis cannot see her mortal son Achilles suffering and resources him as much she can. And, Zeus the king of all gods, however, is not on any side and he attempts to stay impersonal during the conflict but somewhere in his intuitions he does not want

Socrates’ primary motivation for comparing himself to Achilles, the best of all the classic heroes, is to convince the jury of his Achillean heroism. One attribute of a hero according to the events of the Iliad is that one must either kill or be killed in the pursuit of honor. Correspondingly, the Iliad chronicles Achilles’ life and death on the natural path to heroism. Despite the

Achilles then asks his mother to convince Zeus to honor him at the cost of the Greeks. He wants the Greeks to be defeated in battle so that they realize how important Achilles was to them and so that they will honor and respect him as their greatest warrior and most important leader. Zeus grants the wish of Thetis and the battle begins to change dramatically.

Plato treats his republic as a means of demonstrating that there is a certain way for all people

They are educated through their strict curriculum, and due to the virtues that they learn, they are able to rule in a just manner (Plato 515a). The purpose of life for Plato is to create a just state. Through a broad education, and a democratic government, justice can be pursued. Justice is defined as the harmony that results when everyone is actively engaged in fulfilling his role and does not meddle with that of others (Plato 434e). When each person follows their role in life, stability can be achieved in the state.

Here is one of the greatest if not the greatest of the gods, Zeus, complying with Thetis' plea to help the Trojans, and his biggest concern is upsetting his wife. This scene contrasts how the humans lives are in the hands of feeble gods who are sometimes unable to make uninfluenced decisions without the influence of others or worrying about what another will think or say to them simply because she will be ‘scolding all day long'. Another favor which helped turn the tide of war in favor of the Achaeans again involves Achilles and Thetis, however this time she seeks the aid of Hephaestus. Thetis goes to Hephaestus because Achilles armor is in the hands of Hector who killed Achilles dear friend Patroclus.

As one of the most significant works in philosophy, The Republic has been one of the most historically and intellectually influential basis of many political theories and philosophical approaches since its first appearance. It is also crucial to mention that the book contains both Plato’s and Socrates’ arguments of life and the view of the Athenian Democracy in the ancient Greek world. Therefore, it can be confusing and complicated to decide to which philosopher the arguments belong. The main focus of the book is to find the definition and the whereabouts of order, justice and to establish a just state, as well as to prove that a just man is happier than the unjust man by providing examples. The true importance of The Republic lies in the fact that everything has meaning in it, not only the arguments, but also the people who act as metaphors for the different kind of roles, which they fulfill in the Athenian society, furthermore the way they speak symbolizes those roles and every one of them embodies a part of the soul and the city-state. Even though it is not obvious, Plato / Socrates criticizes the Athenian society and tries to establish a new, ideal one with the different people he meets and talks to in the book.

The Greek gods are highly partisan beings in the Iliad. The Greek gods side with different armies there is no side that is more 'moral' or favored by the gods than the other. The Trojan War itself was largely begun because of a rivalry between Athena, Aphrodite, and Hera. The gods also favor certain mortals Athena prefers Odysseus, for example, while Aphrodite adores Paris. This favoring is not based upon the moral behavior of these particular humans but is instead based in the gods' own prejudices. The gods do not act as moral guides in a Judeo-Christian sense. They are anthropomorphically rendered, jealous, unpredictable, and at times vengeful. They have more power than humans and demand humans' respect, but that respect is commanded by their greater power, not their greater morality. The gods also deliberately insert themselves into human affairs, egging on the Trojan War when it seems to be flagging, or favoring one side over another. "Make all haste, and invent/Some mean by which the men of Troy, against the truce agreed, /May stir the glorious Greeks to arms, with some inglorious deed" (59). However, even the gods have limits Achilles mother Thetis, although a goddess, cannot prevent her son's death, which she knows is inevitable. Q2.In Book 1, with whom is Achilles angry? Why? What does Achilles vow to do in response?

The idea of kleos otherwise known as glory in Greek, and honor is one of the most essential motifs of the Iliad. For many warriors depicted in the Iliad, honor was vital and personal. For many, Glory earned in battle was more important than one’s life. Glory or the lack of, was remembered long after one’s life. Possibly the greatest fundamental part of honor to the fighters of the Iliad was courage in battle as shown throughout multiple books. Throughout the course of this book we can see how different characters display these traits and how they influence the course of the war. Even though the Achaeans and Trojans are enemies they display a similar view, the acquisition of glory is more significant than life

In Bloom's second edition of "The Republic of Plato," there are many troubling issues. The one that strikes me the most, however, is the idea of the "noble lie." I find this completely disturbing for a number of reasons. It is immoral and wrong to deliberately deceive someone. This idea also completely contradicts Socrates' argument that it is beneficial to be just.

It is not uncommon for the gods to make appearances in the Iliad, and Achilles is no exception. He receives help from the supernatural on multiple occasions, much like an epic hero would. The most significant divine intervention Achilles received was by Athena, the goddess of wisdom. “Now let’s get tough and fight and not spare Any spears. Either Achilles kills us both…Or he goes down with your spear in his guts,” Athena said to Hector, pretending to be Deiphobus which deceives Hector into fighting Achilles (Puchner Book XXII, 270-272). There is no arguing whether or not Achilles received help from the gods, as he did on multiple occasions. Athena even helps him again in his battle versus Hector by returning his spear after a missed throw. It is the actions like these that craft Achilles into an epic hero, he isn’t asking for the help, but he receives it anyways because it is his destiny to become the epic hero. At points such as these, it seems as if mortal men don’t have much control over their destiny and that the gods are manipulating the outcomes. This can also be seen when Athena prevents Achilles from attack Agamemnon.